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Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:55 pm
by Six Volt
Howie wrote:
Six Volt wrote:Actually, Kyle is coming over Friday and were going to try to electrocute ourselves using 6 volts! :?
You made a DATE with Kyle for Friday, on the same day when you are supposed to be seeing ME and my battery tray? :o
Yea, I'm double dating. Actually, Kyle and I had a plan to electrocute you, but I guess you've now got a pardon.

I'm fully prepared for your arrival. I told the neighbors to hide the kids and pets.

Actually, I measured out a bay bus battery tray compartment today at Dale's VW, so I'm ahead of the game. I just need to see the damage before we jump in. If you work a full day and come later, it's no problem.

We don't want to damage that pristine canary yellow paint job if we don't have to. ;)

Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:07 pm
by Howie
I've been getting home from work at 8:30 every night this week and have not even had time to fire up my bus for the first time this season, let alone pull the battery and inspect the damage underneath. I think I'll use my overtime leftovers Timeoff from 2008 and take off work Friday and at least get the bus running, and get over to your place for an afternoon inspection. What time should I arrive? I don't want to disturb your "OTHER" Date you have there. ;)

Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:26 am
by Six Volt
It's going to rain like cats and dogs on Friday. Saturday or Sunday are options as well. I'm open. Also, I've got some open time next week during the week. If you want to take off work fine, but it doesn't have to be Friday. Jobs are hard to come by, so take care of that first. I can also stop by your place if you can't get it running. Something tells me your bus is going to need a 'pre-tune up day' tune up.

Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:41 am
by hosedrag_r
May I add my 2 cents worth regarding the battery tray areas......... A long time ago with a bug, I placed battery in a Marine battery box...... it kept the corrosion down to NIL....... I just had to revamp the hold down....... i did this with vinyl strap slipping it under tray and over box. I did this with buses also........ i have'nt seen any marine box deteriorate yet........ If your worried about any gas build up, I put a tube in box and exited it under body....... Sorry, so many words i should have said 5 cents worth........... Good Luck on your project..........

Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:39 am
by WideFive
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Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:56 pm
by Howie
WideFive wrote:
Six Volt wrote:Something tells me your bus is going to need a 'pre-tune up day' tune up.
:lol:
Oh shut up, Aaron!!!! :oops:

Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:37 pm
by Six Volt
Let's get back to some work related tasks...

Sorry this is so basic for LEAKOIL veterans, but some 101 stuff is sometimes in order. One thing I wanted to focus on for novice mechanics like me, is the upper bolt engine install challenge. This is especially true when doing solo engine installs.

Just so we start with the basics, whether you have a type I style "upright" or a "pancake" style type IV in your bus, they are both held in place by four (4) stud-bolts/nuts. (NOTE: Some early bays have a "moustache" bar under the engine for support, and "pancakes" also have a support system, but here we're only dealing with the studs/bolts/nuts.)

If you look closely at the photo below you will see where the four mounting points are located on the VW trans. If you think of a clock, they are at approximatly 10:30AM, 1:30PM, 4:30PM & 7:30PM. Do you see the holes in the trans housing? The lower two points, 4:30PM & 7:30PM, are filled by threaded studs that are sticking out of the engine block. Thus, when you mate the engine to the tranny these studs will line up wth the two lower holes in the tranny. When you push the engine in, the studs will pass through the lower holes and they will then be bolted in by 17MM nuts on the opposite side of the tranny. Hopefully, if you have nothing blocking you, these are pretty easy.

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Now the top bolts/nuts are a bit of a challenge. First off, there are no threaded studs in the engine block for these holes. These are bolts that are inserted from the opposite side of the trans from what you see in the photo above. After being inserted, these bolts pass through the engine block holes at the 10:30AM & 1:30PM locations going backwards in the direction of the back of the bus. These are then bolted in by using nuts that are screwed onto these bolts from the inside of the engine compartment behind the fan shroud! Get it?

Thus, the bottom fixed studs are bolted on what is the front side (front is front) of the tranny and the top bolts are inserted twords the back of the bus through both the holes in the tranny and the engine block and are then bolted on from the inside of the engine compartment, (back is back).

This is tough. The problem you face is that neither upper point is easily accessible without a lift, and with respect to the passanger upper bolt, it also serves as the upper bolt for the starter. Thus, you can't see the upper bolt lying on your back!

If you try to put the bolts in and then just screw on the nuts you will find the two bolts will just turn endlessly and never really come together. You need to hold one in place to tighten them up. Here is one method....

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My kid stopped playing with playdough years ago, but now I'm back on it. If you get some playdough or something else you can stick the bolt in place so it will hold while you reach into the engine compartment and get the nut on the other side started. It works. Just get it started. The putty isn't strong enough for you to tighten it all the way down. For that, we need something to hold the bolt in the engine comaprtment in place. Here is one method...

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What you see here is the inside of the engine compatment from behind the fan shroud where the nut is put on the upper bolt. You can see the nut is started, but then a set of vice grips are attached to the nut so when you go underneath with your 17mm ratchet on the bolt head you can crank away and the nut won't turn once the vice grips come into contact with something and stops moving.

Here's a bigger view...

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The real challenge on the starter side is gettng up there on the top of the starter and finding the unseen bolt so it can be tightened down. Here's how the effort looks...

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You can see the chrome extension bar above the starter seeking the bolt. Here is the set up that you need. 17MM w/ 3/8 drive and 6" extension.

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I hope this helps other novice mechanics like me. Be pateint, This only takes some veteran LEAKOILERS twenty minutes. The whole thing took me two hours.

In the end, you'll know that no matter what the problem is, you can remove and re-install your engine by yourself.

Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:53 am
by toolbox
Sean,
The starter bolt should have a halfmoon head to hold it on the blind side. The other upper bolt shohl have a 17mm head and fit a notch in the trans housing to hold it from spinning. The hardest part is starting the nuts without pushing the bolts out so they are no longer captive and they rotate.

I wrap some electrical tape around the bolt shaft and tap it into the hole with a hammer. this makes it easier thestart the nut and the bolt can still be removedlater if needed.

USe an allen head bolt from underneath on early vehicles with a doghouse cooler and the threaded insert on the engine.

Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:58 pm
by Six Volt
toolbox wrote:Sean,
The starter bolt should have a halfmoon head to hold it on the blind side. .
Yes, I found that out later! My 'halfmoon' was replaced by a PO with a straight 17MM head bolt. The problem is it's hard to get the 17mm socket over a full sized bolt head in close quarters. I don't know if the 'halfmoons' are still available.
toolbox wrote: The other upper bolt shohl have a 17mm head and fit a notch in the trans housing to hold it from spinning. The hardest part is starting the nuts without pushing the bolts out so they are no longer captive and they rotate.

I wrap some electrical tape around the bolt shaft and tap it into the hole with a hammer. this makes it easier thestart the nut and the bolt can still be removedlater if needed.

USe an allen head bolt from underneath on early vehicles with a doghouse cooler and the threaded insert on the engine.
Yes, mine has the 17mm head, but I didn't realize there was a notch in the trans housing to keep it from spinning. I'll remember that next time. That tape is a good idea as well. I'm running a standard oil cooler, so no 'doghouse' on my set up.

Appreciate the input Ted.

Re: CKWA/KWHA Part II

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:28 pm
by Ken
Here is a little trick I learned and it seems to work very well. Take a standard length hack saw blade and grind a notch in one end to fit the diameter of the engine mounting bolt.
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Insert the bolt into the hole from the starter side and reach over the fan shroud with the hack saw blade in your left hand and put slight pressure with the notched end on the exposed threads. This will hold the bolt in place while you use your other hand to start the nut on the bolt. Hand tighten as much as possible and use a 17mm socket to final tighten. The key to this is to clean and lube the threads on the bolt and nut before you start so they turn freely. It works me every time for me.

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