1957 Oval

Six Volt
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:25 am

Re: 1957 Oval

Post by Six Volt »

Dual Port wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:25 pm In my experience, if the cooler is wet it's the cooler as airflow won't bring oil upwards if the seals are leaking. If you want to bring it out we can do a hillbilly pressure test of it. I'd change the cooler and probably the tranny shaft seal too. If it's the same as later trannies I should have it.
I'll get ahold of you this week and see if you have time for me to stop out. I'd like to address that exhaust stud if you carry the 9mm/8mm replacement stud? Do you know where I can get some brass nuts for the exhaust locally?

I'm hopeful there's a way to detrmine if at least one of these coolers is good. :lol:
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wwebner
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Re: 1957 Oval

Post by wwebner »

I have a cooler pressure test jig you can use. Also have the step stud.
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Dual Port
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Re: 1957 Oval

Post by Dual Port »

Sean didn't need the step stud, his exhaust stud merely unscrewed, it didn't pull the threads out. I cleaned things up and screwed the stud back in. :roll:

The cooler, on the other hand was done. A quickie air test showed a big hole rotted through it and would have been pouring oil out. The hole was in the second row of tubes, I cut the first tube out for a good picture after bead blasting.
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He brought a pile of used coolers with him, my way of figuring which one to use is to fill them halfway with brake clean and cap the holes. Shake vigorously and empty through a white paper towel. You want to look for debris from a possible spun bearing (or similar failure) in a previous life. The first one looked like this, I thought it was metal particles but it was actually hardened oil sludge:
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The next one was nice, what came out of it was oil and nothing else so we used it.
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Bruce Amacker
'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
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Karl Kombi
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Re: 1957 Oval

Post by Karl Kombi »

Nice! 8-)
Six Volt
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Re: 1957 Oval

Post by Six Volt »

Why am I always left with the feeling that when I fix something there are storm clouds on the horizon? :lol:

Well, after Bruce helped out with the oil cooler install I decided to pay a little more attention to my split case transmission. It seemed there was a fair amount of seepage from the main tranny seal, so Bruce gave me a replacement seal and a puller and with the engine out I decided to replace it. If I didn't have this little puller tool, I would have been up the creek without a paddle. I was so impressed with it, Chuck found me one at the Canfield swap meet that I grabbed for $5. Of course Chuck reminded me with a split case tranny it could still leak with all new everything! :lol:

While checking everything out it seems the boots were leaking from the bottom of the axle tubes. Too much corrosion and gunk had built up at the connection points. The boots were not cracked, but it was time to swap them out and clean the axle tubes. Mick got me some nice German ones cheap (call Mick when you need something) and I got to work. I cleaned the axle tubes up with a wire wheel and got the boots on. I was shooting for 2:45pm on both boots, but came in around 2:28PM. Better to be early than late. :lol:

I didn't even mess with the pressure plate or clutch disc when I had the motor out. The engine seal wasn't leaking so why bother? Big mistake.

I got it all back together and you guessed it, clutch chatter. :evil:

So Chuck says " Drive it till the fluid burns off the disc, or if its still leaking it will still chatter" :roll:

Bruce also felt fluid on the disc was the likely culprit, but said it could also be the front tranny mount, bowden tube or an engine mount. He took it for a spin and confirmed the chatter.

Time to pull the engine again! :lol:

Here was the puller tool that Bruce lent me to get the old tranny seal out.
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I have some side seal sepage that isn't getting fixed unless (and until) I pull the whole tranny assembley out. That's for another day.
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The boots on this were in good shape, but leaking due to corrosion on the axle tubes. I can complain. I got this whole drum to drum tranny assembly from a guy Randy knew for $50 almost 5 years ago.
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Front mount didn't look bad, but I didn't test it, or stress it, so who knows if it's the culprit?
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Had to wire wheel the axle tubes near the contact points.
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New German boots from Mick. Call him if you need anything.
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Other than my side plate seepage, no leaks.
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Ready to go back in. Despite being small, 36HP's in an oval are a pain to get in and out. Muffler, rear tin and generator pulley have to come off.
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And of course the dreaded upper engine bolt is always a pain! :lol:
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As I like to say, "Rinse and Repeat!"
Six Volt
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Re: 1957 Oval

Post by Six Volt »

While I'm getting ready to pull the motor again on this beetle, I thought I'd sort out the passenger door latch/lock/stricker plate issues. I put WW aftermarket ('60-'64) latches this bug when I first got it back together, but I discovered the aftermarkets were crap. I sourced some used '60-'64 German latches and my problems were solved.

I did discover that the crap aftermarket latches WW was selling a few years ago are no longer offered and they're now offering latches that are of higher quality. The crap one (gold) is on the left and the better one (silver) is on the right. You can use '60-'64 latches in '55-'57 ovals as long as you change out the stricker plates.

And changing latches on an early bug are a PAIN. Getting them out is not easy. It reminds me of changing cabinet drawer guides with countertops on in a kitchen. Ask me how I know! :lol:
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Six Volt
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Re: 1957 Oval

Post by Six Volt »

Over the winter I really thought long and hard about how I was going to use the Beetle in the coming year. It's really only a drive-around-town vehicle, and I'm fine with that, but after running this little 36HP motor hard for the past 8-9 years; the leaky split case trans; and the clutch chatter, I decided I better get after it before the days are long and warm and I'm not in the mood to be crawling around on a garage floor.

So I pulled the old 36HP out of the bug and dug out another long block 36hP I had in my stash. I got the replacement from Monkeynut in Charlotte, thanks to WIdefive, who was down there about 8 years ago for CTS and he brought it back for me. I was hopeful a new Sachs clutch kit would cure my chatter and the engine would at least run better than the old tired one. So, I dressed the motor up, installed the clutch, and put it in the vehicle and then thought the better of it. Why? Because I'm now old enough to appreciate that no matter how many times I do these swap/installs, something always goes wrong. And it's not always me. Ok, so a lot of times it is me, but this time it wasn't me.
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So I called Bruce and told him I was bringing it out to run it on his stand and to have him do the install with his lift. I'm so glad I did.

The engine ran great, but the damn thing leaked oil from under the pulley faster than the leaks on the starboard side of the Titanic. Bruce was able to isolate it to the oil pump cover and then the fun began.

These 36hp's have super small 17mm pumps. Not a big margin for error for oil pressure. You either have pressure or you don't. You can cure the leak with a thick gasket and a ton of goop, as that just deletes your oil pressure. Go thin and you've got pressure, but a leaky pump cover. Bruce went through a bunch of permutations on gasket sizes and settle on one that finally worked.
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And Bruce set it up so it runs like a top. Nice little motor. Even Bruce was surprised. And unlike me he got it installed with the muffler on! The lift does help!
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And yet, with a test drive, the clutch chatter was back. We knew it wasn't fluid on the disc and it was likely the tranny that is leaking pretty badly. I told Bruce my plan was to swap out the tranny anyway, so I could live with it for the early summer.

Bruce said adding washers was a common fix for chatter, but he said it rarely worked for him. In fact I think he said it never worked for him, but if I was game we would try it. This is not a car that doing anything near the clutch cable brings any joy. These ovals have the two-nut set-up at the end of the cable which is a PAIN compared to the wingnut set up. The bowden tubes are usually hard as cement and getting a bend is never easy. This one went easier than Bruce expected. I replaced the old tube earlier with one from WW that was pliable. Bruce added three washers and magically the chatter was gone.

But the leaky trans is going to need an upgrade anyway so the search started. I made some contact with folks on the samba who had both split case ('60-down) and '61-'66 swing axles, but everyone wants a fortune because they say: My (insert appropriate name here) said it shifted when they pulled it out of the bug back in (insert year here -usually more than two decades ago) so this is a good one. 🙃

Now with all respect to the transmission hording community out there, if you think I'm going to take something off a garage floor that's been sitting for 20 plus years and go through all the effort to bolt everything in, including an engine, in an oval no less, to see if the tranny is good, you're nuts! I did that once and got lucky, but everyone else I've talked to always had issues. Besides, even if it was "good when pulled," that doesn't mean it has another 100,000 K in it. It could work fine initially, but it could be on its last 5k or even 1K.

I was going to give Ted's guy a call in Michigan, but since every builder seemed to want a usable core for a swap, I figured I better first get a fully syncro '61-'66 core and be ready.

So the hunt continued and I finally got lucky at Jim's spring swap. I found not one, but two swing axles. Both had the correct short tubes and short axles and one had both backing plates. And they were both in really good shape. So I consulted with Bruce and he said see what it will take to get both of them. The seller was more than fair. He gave me both of them for $225.
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So off to Bruce's shop to bust them down and see what I've got.
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They were all in nice shape and stored inside for many years.

I then saw an ad on the samba from the old guy Geno Boyd in PA outside of Pittsburgh advertising a ready to go '61-'66 swing axle so I said "what the heck" and drove and picked it up exchanging one of the cores with it. And its ground for 12V and has a straight arm on it for a wingnut! 😁

As for pricing, when I talked to Jim (Jim's custom) about a rebuild he said it would be at least $900. I had a bus center done there about 5 years ago for $500. So prices have gone up. Boyd charged me $800. He said it would have been $900, but because he mistakenly told me he thought he had a 412 and didn't (its a 437) he made the price $800. Rancho quoted me $2,500 for a split case drum to drum plus $300 core and $400 to ship.

So a 437 will scream if I put a bigger engine in, but it will make driving in the city fun.
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I'm putting these prices out here not so much to embarrass myself, but to remind everyone that just like all other other bills, the price of doing this work has gone up. There are probably better deals out there, but when your my age, time is money and a parked car is no fun.

And Geno Boyd was sure an interesting character. He's 79 years old and has been building transmissions his whole life. He's managed to turn a split level home in Elizabeth PA into a transmission shop. You know when you go into that lower level of a split level home? His is loaded with transmission gears and benches and stuff from way back in time. And he's an optimist at 79. He told me if anything goes wrong down the road, even in the next 10 years, just bring it back and he'll fix it.

So many thanks to Bruce for once again getting me on the road and all the informative discussions on what's next. I'm doing my research on the rear brake set ups for the '58-'64 bugs. Stay tuned for an update.
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