'65 Standard

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Dual Port
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:06 am

Re: '65 Standard

Post by Dual Port »

Six Volt wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:34 am Great stuff Bruce. Really appreciate the attention to detail and the time it takes to document and share a project like this. Many thanks.
On another note, I must be a horrible witness as I have no recollection of the welder you're using. Is it a Lincoln or a Miller or something else? Also, if you can share, what settings do you generally use for cargo floor welds/rockers? Do you just "play it by ear", or do you have specific settings you use for specific welds? Can you share how you set up welding? I'd like to get better at welding (hell, I'd like to get better at everything) and this kind of project intimidates amateurs. And as you know, I'm an amateur!

I started the last bus with a small Lincoln but it wasn’t getting the job done. Miller is one of the best names in the welding field so I got lucky and stumbled on a MillerMatic 135 110v mig welder and have loved it ever since. I use a standard 75/25 mix of argon and CO2 and .024” wire.


On the inside lid there is a factory “cheat sheet” on what settings to use with the size of wire and material which I’ve found to be pretty good so I just stick with these. You can see I have the heat on 3 and the wire speed on 45 for 20 ga sheetmetal.


Sheetmetal is the worst thing to weld anyway so getting a high quality welder was a big step up, years ago I had a Snap-On YA212 mig which was great then, but when I sold the shop all equipment went with it. Now I find myself buying all the shop equipment I sold with the business. :|  The important things to remember with sheetmetal is patience and really short welds. The metal (both new and old) I’m welding is about .031”. If you weld for more than ¾ of a second in one tack the metal just falls away and leaves a big F’ing hole which you must now fill in. Also on long straight welds like replacing a body panel you must wait between each 3/8” long weld for the metal to cool completely off, otherwise your nice flat panel turns into a potato chip. I also stepped up to a nice Miller Digital Infinity helmet with a big window which is nice. I cheaped out and didn’t spend the extra $10 for cool graphics.  :roll:


To answer L’s question, weld through primer is just that- primer that you apply to bare metal and then weld over to protect metal that would otherwise be bare and buried where you can’t paint it when done. It’s self-etching to be applied over bare metal and prevent rust. There are conflicting opinions on this stuff, but it beats nothing. I use the expensive stuff from the bodyshop store, it’s like $14/can. It has a ton of pigment, unlike most rattle cans that are 95% thinner.


I’ve been kind of busy with work crap, like writing two new classes. For you techheads you might get a kick out of this- I built 5 demo boxes to use in class that consist of a late Powerstroke 6.7 ECM, power supply, and 2 DLC connectors for scan tools. This will let us have 10 (5x2) live Ford IDS scan tool setups in class for teaching how to use the software. It was fun to build these but it took waaay longer than I thought it would.



Anyway, back to the bus. The RR corner was next and it was crumpled up from a light hit. My gut instinct is to not cut the crumpled metal off, I generally straighten it back to near-correct before cutting so I don’t get too much going on at one time. So I took my monster wire wheel/bondo/flesh remover and took off all of the bondo, which takes about 30 seconds. Then I hammer and dollied out the crumpled metal until it resembled the correct profile.


I then cut the wasted portion of the metal away and started eyeballing the new panel, which was the curved section and not the flange next to the engine lid.




I cut reliefs in the edge of the metal and folded them over to create the curved flange needed. I put a piece of I-beam in the vise and clamped a hunk of angle to it to create my hillbilly brake.





About this time I realized I needed to have the engine lid and rear apron in place to get my gaps right. Both were somewhat mangled and took some time with a hammer, dolly, and long I-beam to make them usable again. When I went to mount the engine lid a previous “tech” had broken both screws off in the nut plate. I intended to get these out with the welder so I sandblasted them to get a good weld started.

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When I hit the welder trigger the wire would just bounce off of the bolts! Both had no continuity to ground, even though they were frozen in place. Rust, ugh. Using a DVOM one had 10KΩ resistance and the other was infinite. This require me to cut open the back side of the hinge panel to access the nut plate.



From there it was easy, glow it, remove the stubs, chase the threads, straighten it, and reinsert it.



It also need some hammer/dolly work where the “tech” tugged and twisted the engine lid in anger trying to get it free. This guy did a shitty job of drilling out the hinges, too, which required me to re-do his work. That meant glowing the hinge, removing the pins, brazing the hole up to fix his sloppy work, and drilling it back to correct size with new .225” stock as a pin in the drill press.



A dot of braze keeps the pin from walking out.



Oh well, it’s now back on, works well and has good gaps.



Here I’m test fitting the piece, the big flange in the foreground was also mangled pretty good so I glowed it, straightened it, and welded it back where it belonged.


Here the corner is tacked in with the lid and valance showing the gaps are good. No overlaps here, those panels are butted with zero clearance.



Welding….



Fully welded and rough ground, nice gaps.




Here you can see the relief cuts welded together. A bit more finish work and this won’t be visible at all.



Here I’ve put the battery tray in, the ugly welds in the background look like the tray but they’re actually the inside of the corner welds. The far edge of the tray was welded from underneath.



The left valance bracket also had a broken 8mm bolt with no continuity. I drilled a hole in it, glowed it, and quickly stuck an easy-out in it to extract the broken bolt. This is one of the few times an easy-out can actually work.


Next is the spare tire holder.
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Last edited by Dual Port on Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bruce Amacker
'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Helmet
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:49 am

Re: '65 Standard

Post by Helmet »

Bruce
So much fun to read and learn from your well documented project.
You are a great teacher. Thanks
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douge
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:57 pm

Re: '65 Standard

Post by douge »

We're just lucky Bruce doesn't charge us for this.
64 camper bus
65 Bug cal look
sand rail / wooded acres service vehicle
Six Volt
Posts: 3724
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:25 am

Re: '65 Standard

Post by Six Volt »

douge wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:02 pm We're just lucky Bruce doesn't charge us for this.
Very true. As always, really great information by Bruce.

For those, like me, that have limited mechanical abilities, it's really great to see how these tasks are accomplished by someone with a REAL professional background in automotive repair. I personally wouldn't try 95% of this, as I know my limitations, but it's still very valuable to understand what's involved.

The best thing about this thread is the time Bruce takes and the detail he offers in presenting information. The fact that he shares information without the need to demean others and does it in a sensitive and patient manner explains why Bruce is such a great asset to LEAKOIL and the VW community. I'm never embarrased to ask Bruce a dumb question. He always takes the time to explain things to me, even if we both know I'm probably going to screw it up at some point.

Like everyone else, I really enjoy reading and learning from Bruce's threads.
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Dual Port
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Re: '65 Standard

Post by Dual Port »

Well I guess it’s time for my monthly update, I guess I’m competing with Chuckie to see who can put the most pictures in a single post. :D

Here I’ve welded in a new bottom in the spare tire tub. The sides were pretty pitted so I reinforced them with epoxy paste rather than replace them. I’ll drill a couple of drain holes so if water gets in (which it will) it won’t float the spare tire around. Image

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Next I was messing with the broken bolt where the battery ground strap goes. I could have easily drilled another one for the strap and left the broken one there, but I’m a glutton for punishment. First I tried drilling a hole, glowing it, and quickly jamming an easy-out into the hole but this SOB was stuck good. :x Image

Then I tried welding a washer to the broken bolt, welding a nut to the washer, heating it and turning the nut, but that didn’t work either, the washer kept breaking off.

Image This time I had continuity to ground so I built up a weld bugger until it was big enough to grab with a VG, heated it, and finally it came out.
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On to the front floor. To remove the floor I made a perimeter cut about 1” from the edge the whole way around with a whizzer wheel tool.

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This leaves the edge which is spot welded in place, I then sandblast the edge to show up the spot welds. If you use a flashlight held at a steep angle the spotwelds show up well, dot each of them with a magic marker (Sharpie for you younger folk). Image

Chuck up a 3/8 or ½” bit and drill out the spot welds. Like I’ve said before, I’ve not had good luck with spotweld cutter bits. Use a regular bit and just drill until you see chips- this takes practice ‘cause you’re just ready to go through at that point.

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Once you’ve weakened each spotweld, take a VG and pull the piece loose. If you’ve done good (not usually the case) it comes off like a zipper but usually you fight it like an SOB, eat your Wheaties. Once the piece is gone clean things up with a flap wheel. If I remember I’ll take pictures of each of my tools so you know what I’m talking about.

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Here I’ve cut the floor out, note the driver’s step area is rotted and the lower A pillar has a big hole in it, I’ll address those soon.

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I’ve cut out the rotted piece in the driver’s step but for some reason it doesn’t show up well in the pic. Take my word for it, there’s a big fing hole there. I also cut the lower A pillar out where it needs a patch. I take a piece of cardboard and template the replacement pieces.

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I then transfer this to .032” and rough it out, bend it in my “brake” and fit it using the flap wheel. It needs a little bit more trimming here to get it butted and not overlapped. Image
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Here it is welded and rough ground using the hard wheel and flap wheel.
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Lather, rinse, repeat on the right side but this one’s a bit tougher cause the A pillar is a bit worse.
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For you old farts that can’t see to well (like me) I use safety glasses that are 1.25 reading glasses across the whole lens. Most reading safety glasses are bifocals and I hate those and full magnifying safety lenses are not easy to find.

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Also for a trouble light I’m still old school and still use a corded trouble light when most shops have transitioned to battery/cordless LED lights. Anyway, corded lights are dangerous in two ways- the heat they create can melt car seats, carpets, and wreck paint if you lay them on a fender. And if you drop one it shatters and will ignite any flammable fluids nearby. I switched to LED bulbs from Home Depot and love them. Cool to the touch, don’t burn out when you drop them, can’t ignite gas, it’s a win-win. At $6-7 it’s the best investment I’ve made, I’m getting about a year out of them before I break the glass globe.

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Here I’m test fitting the new front floor which I’m going to use panel bond to install instead of welding. It has a lap joint 360* which lends itself to glue much better than welding so we’ll see how this goes.

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On to the long rocker while I’m waiting for the panel bond to show up. Here I’m cutting all of the crap metal out, which was quite a pile. The same deal goes for the spot welds and etc, and once it was roughed out I rolled the bus outside and sandblasted the left rocker area and front floor area to get the rust scale off. (no pics of sandblasting)



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Here I’m test fitting the new panel, the first one I bought was from CIP1 and I though it was poor quality so I ordered one from WW which was only slightly better. I think AutoCraft was out of stock.

I like to butt fit the joints, I think most guys cheat and overlap them, but that’s just me. I’m not fond of these butt clamps (is that a word?) but they get the job done. I ground down the bottoms with the flap wheel to make ‘em skinnier.
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Test fitting, than welding. You tack the panel all along it to align it, then start filling in the blank spots. I think a lot of guys leave it tacked and then mud over it, but I’m not a lot of guys. You REALLY need to take your time here and let each 3/8” long weld cool off before proceeding. I use an air gun to quciklyu quench the hot weld, I weld 2-3 seconds, then blow it 4-5 seconds to chill it. Amazingly, it goes from red hot liquid steel to room temp in under 5 seconds with the air gun. If you don’t let it chill completely it goes from flat metal to a potato chip. I messed up my first bus like that and spent a long time with a hammer, dolly, and panel shrinker fixing the massive ripples.

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Here it is fully welded and the bottom lip spot welded (thanks, Chuck!). When I lay the 6’ straight edge on the weld, there’s not 1/16” of variation along the 5 feet!

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Here’s the inside showing the upright repairs, joist repair, etc, getting ready for the floor.

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Stay tuned, more to come.

:mrgreen:
Bruce Amacker
'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Kooper271
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: '65 Standard

Post by Kooper271 »

My previous employer bought me a pair of 3M prescription safety glasses. My eyesight is terrible (-4.25 in one eye and -4.50 in the other) and wearing glasses under safety goggles sucks, so they are awesome.

Is that panel bond strong? I've heard of it before, but I've never seen it used. It sounds great.
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TRL
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Re: '65 Standard

Post by TRL »

Great looking work bruce!
The Rick Lang
toolbox
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Re: '65 Standard

Post by toolbox »

Kooper271 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:38 am My previous employer bought me a pair of 3M prescription safety glasses. My eyesight is terrible (-4.25 in one eye and -4.50 in the other) and wearing glasses under safety goggles sucks, so they are awesome.
As much as I hate Walmart they have prescription safety glasses for $40.00 and they are not even the Buddy Holly old school looking ones. Walmart is the vendor for the prescription eyewear for the company I work for so they are free for me.

So go get some if you need them...
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Marla
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Re: '65 Standard

Post by Marla »

Wow, you're really getting a lot done on this. Great Job!
It's Marla with an " L"
(My list of assets is just too long...)
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Ken
Posts: 1919
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:18 am

Re: '65 Standard

Post by Ken »

Awesome work Bruce. I wish I had half your skills with metal work. You make it look so easy. :o :D
1963 Single Cab
1964 Bowman & Sons Camper (Vegas Bus)
1966 Westy S0-42 Hardtop
1967 Westy SO-42 Pop Top
1968 Single Cab
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