76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

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Rob
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:20 am

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by Rob »

On our trip our west the starter had some intermittent problems. It had this relay wired into it underneath so I thought it might be that. That had gone out before. I replaced the relay and that seemed to solve the problem until about week later when it happened again. Figured this long weekend was a good time to tackle it.

My son and I replaced the starter as the one in the bus was of an indeterminate age so while we were at might as well.
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With that in the wiring hooked up we tried it and the starter cranked once and then nothing. I checked the battery, it was good, and the connections at the starter and it looked good.

I changed out the relay with a spare I had and the same result. The starter cranked once and then nothing.

I crossed the terminal and the solenoid and starter worked so it can’t be the issue. At that point I took the relay out and cleaned the terminals and hooked it up what Ii I think is the stock configuration, My thoughts were if it is getting power to activate the relay, at least in the past, it should work without the relay. This time nothing at all happened. Any thoughts? I do have a multimeter but don’t know how to use it very well. Could it be the ignition switch itself? I also checked the fuses and none were blown ( according to the wiring schematic I think it should be fuse #8 which would be eight over from the left correct). When switch is on dash lights come on and the fuel pump activates.
Original starter
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Photo of what I think should be stock wiring
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Wiring and relay I took out. Blue wire went to a ground Screw on the body, brown wire was twisted and taped onto the red wire with the thin blank line and then the yellow wire with ring terminal went to post the other wires you can see in the photo. The red wire went to terminal 30? Which is the one in the photo you see the red wire with a gray or white stripe attached to it.
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1967 Beetle "Little Tud"
1968 Black Double Cab "The Black Pearl"
1970 Lotus White Single Cab "Big Tud"
1976 Sage Green Westfalia "Sweet Pickle"

They gotta' have names!
toolbox
Posts: 879
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:58 pm

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by toolbox »

I bet the electrical portion of the ignition switch has failed. unhook the switch and jump terminal #30 (HOT all the time and unfused) to terminal #50 and see if it cycles the starter.
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wwebner
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:34 am

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by wwebner »

I agree w Ted. Start position on ign switch bad. You can check at the starter with volt meter or test lite
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Rob
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:20 am

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by Rob »

Checked at the starter and got 12.46. Switched to the terminal the red wire with the white stripe is attached to, had my son crank the ignition and got nothing. Cut the connector off, it was bent and felt weak, stripped the wire back and had my son crank again and still nothing. Jumped with a screw driver the terminal with the 3 wires to the spade terminal with the red wire with white stripe and the starter engaged and the engine turned over. Ordered an ignition switch.

Can anyone tell me though if the wires in the photo appear to be hooked up correctly.
9E2C3802-16EE-4B37-8EC1-E1C30E2BD8E2.jpeg
1967 Beetle "Little Tud"
1968 Black Double Cab "The Black Pearl"
1970 Lotus White Single Cab "Big Tud"
1976 Sage Green Westfalia "Sweet Pickle"

They gotta' have names!
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wwebner
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:34 am

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by wwebner »

Doesn't look correct. Both push on connectors should be on comon terminal. Need to look at a diagram, but the red/BLK should be ign. The one that looks like red/wht should be the one that goes to double relay.Try moving the ref/BLK to the common terminal with red/wht.
toolbox
Posts: 879
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:58 pm

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by toolbox »

Rob wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:40 pm Checked at the starter and got 12.46. Switched to the terminal the red wire with the white stripe is attached to, had my son crank the ignition and got nothing. Cut the connector off, it was bent and felt weak, stripped the wire back and had my son crank again and still nothing. Jumped with a screw driver the terminal with the 3 wires to the spade terminal with the red wire with white stripe and the starter engaged and the engine turned over. Ordered an ignition switch.

Can anyone tell me though if the wires in the photo appear to be hooked up correctly.

9E2C3802-16EE-4B37-8EC1-E1C30E2BD8E2.jpeg
Looks good. All the spade terminals on the replacement starters all go to the same connection internally, on the factory installed starter it was connected a bit different. The wire you want to pay attention to is the red w/black that is your trigger to engage the starter, the red w/white is out to the fuel pump and operates it when in the start position till the AFM takes over control of the pump.

If you install a relay which i recommend to preserve the shitty new ignition switches use a quality 50amp unit and mount it in the engine bay so it is protected from direct water spray. This is the one I use... https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bch-0332002256
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wwebner
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:34 am

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by wwebner »

Also, don't know where you order ign switch from, but most are crap. Airheads carries the kostel. Which is an oem .
https://airheadparts.com/vw-part/kostal ... 905-865-l/
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Rob
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:20 am

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by Rob »

Thank you both. I ordered the switch from Bus Depot, saint was a German one but did not say what brand. If is not the Kostel I’ll see about ordering the one from Airheads.
1967 Beetle "Little Tud"
1968 Black Double Cab "The Black Pearl"
1970 Lotus White Single Cab "Big Tud"
1976 Sage Green Westfalia "Sweet Pickle"

They gotta' have names!
User avatar
Rob
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:20 am

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by Rob »

So I crawled back under there tonight. Moved the red wire with the black stripe to the terminal next to the red wire with the white stripe. Had my son crank it and it fired right up. Did it several times again and started each time. Drove it to pick my older son up from work and again no issues (figured he would be happy to push if it did not). Still does not mean it is not an intermittent issue though. I did remove the relay and harness that had been previously hooked up to it. For now I plan to drive around to see if it happens again.

Wire location that ended up working.
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Harness and relay I removed.
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The diagram on the relay looks the same as the one toolbox recommended though a different brand and it was mounted underneath the bus.
1967 Beetle "Little Tud"
1968 Black Double Cab "The Black Pearl"
1970 Lotus White Single Cab "Big Tud"
1976 Sage Green Westfalia "Sweet Pickle"

They gotta' have names!
User avatar
Rob
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:20 am

Re: 76 Westfalia Sweet Pickle

Post by Rob »

I would like to try wiring in a relay in the engine compartment.

I found this on the Samba.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... uble+relay

My engine is carbureted and has an aftermarket fuel pump mounted on the inside of the frame rail near the starter. So I think alot that is on that diagram does not apply. Can anyone provide a more simple diagram/explanation?
1967 Beetle "Little Tud"
1968 Black Double Cab "The Black Pearl"
1970 Lotus White Single Cab "Big Tud"
1976 Sage Green Westfalia "Sweet Pickle"

They gotta' have names!
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